Discussion

Fundamentally speaking, there has been no change in our economic climate. Any profits that are being currently reported, especially by the banks, are merely an accounting sleight of hand. Thanks to the bailouts, it appears that these businesses are profitable, however, nothing has changed. Millions are losing their jobs, but we are being led to believe that we have reached the low point of this economic downturn. Hogwash! Until our country actually produces something and exchanges it for profits, any gains are merely the work of the printing press.

This economy will not see a firm come back until it's founded on goodness. We simply can't put our hope in wealth and we simply can't ignore our own flesh and blood.

Wealth is a tool for providing for our BASIC needs (food and clothing) and for helping those who are hurting (yes, even those who have "done it to themselves"; we've all been there). Wealth is not meant for the accumulation of goods--not that having them is bad, but can prove to be a snare if not appreciated, enjoyed and used properly.

No one likes to admit it, but 'tis true: The ROOT causes of a troubled economy are fear, greed and loss of compassion. Fear tells us whatever will scare us--anything from, "We're all gonna die," to, "You'll be compared less favorably."

Greed doesn't present itself as such. It piggy backs on something good: the concept of improvement and growth.

Selfishness, too, goes along for the ride on the back of a good saying, "Teach a man to fish...," which becomes, unfortunately, a rationalization for not helping out those in need (Do we find ourselves saying, "Well that's not REALLY helping them," or, "They need to either sink or swim"? I'm afraid that's symptomatic of a pendulum swung too far the other way).

When we are afraid, when we are greedy, and when it's "every man for himself," we are DESTINED for ruin. Why? Wealth is uncertain. History SHOWS wealth and the pursuit of it is uncertain. Even the most careful of planners can find themselves up the creek with one twist of the divine screwdriver (The survivors are those who humbly accept the current circumstance and keep a thankful, positive posture for what they DO have; I know homeless people who are better off than many wealthy people I know).

The LOVE of money is still A root of all KINDS of evil. Ignorance of money is, too, but the fundamental issue is one of values.

1 Timothy 6:6-10; 17-19

Robert, chapter 6 is great and makes some interesting points about why the economy cannot be a boom time again as in the 50's and 60's.
But I want to submit to you another reason our economy can not grow like that again. It is called resource depletion.

Up until the early 70's america was not dependent on foreign oil and we had an ever increasing supply of cheap domestic oil. But in the early 70's the existing wells we had online started to deplete as all oilfields eventually do, and for the first time we had to start importing oil from other countries.

The evidence is that the world has already peaked in oil discovery and production and new discoveries are not even able to replace the fields that are in decline. (The cantarell field off the coast of mexico is a classic example.)

To continue to grow an ever expanding economy requires more and more oil. In the 50's the world used about 10 Million barrels a day. Today, the world uses about 80 million per day. This growth cannot continue.

Back in the 70's a groundbreaking book was published entitled,Limits To Growth. It basically showed how all major civilizations in the past eventually outgrow their resource base and then begin to decline.

I believe the world is at that point and that industrial civilization fueled by abundant cheap easily accessible oil is in its final stages.

This is another reason I believe our economy is not coming back.

Can the economy come back when thousands more have been laided off? Record numbers of people are collecting unemployment at a 1/3 of their paychecks, companies are still laying off and demand is NOT forefront. Until all inventories are exhausted and product demand is a necessity - the economy will still be weak.

All that money that went into TARP should have bailed out individual PEOPLE. Rules could have govern both the debitor and the debitee making the playing ground a little more fair. By empowering the mass, the small companies would still be in business, debt payments would be made, forclosures could be avoided and credit restructure could have been accomplished. Strengthen and support the economic foundation from the ground up instead of the top down would have made history insteaded of repeating it.

Industries are boyant so far but that is smoke and mirrors. The same people are making decisions. If the masses are not working there is no banking. The much needed changes and the recovery will be minimal with more problems created.

Hasn't history shown that it takes more than a few fluctuations in the stock market to prove that the economy may take years to correct itself? If at all?

Robert

Kia ora Robert,

though still working on options trading the best thing I have is the software to help find trades. it has being showing the underlying fundamentals were still bearish. As I type this the swine flu has hit & in the last few hours world markets have begun to drop largely due to banks & the flu. there seemed to be a lot of ups last week on the slightest good news ignoring the underlying issues coming out.

So I expect one silver to keep going up as it has over last three days along with gold & my put options to over the next week to bring in some much appreciated cash flow. yet again thanks to your advice I am looking forward to being able to implement my plans at some stage.

Here are a few statements I have been hearing repeated lately from everyday people:

"The economy can't stay down forever. Give it until October, which will be a year & things will start to get better."

"I'm investing heavily in the financial companies such as major banks because their stock is a steal right now. These are companies that aren't going anywhere & people are just afraid right now. I would recommend putting your money there."

"People have money, they are just hiding it right now. Once the panic is over, everyone will start spending again and the economy will begin to pick back up."

As I hear these thoughts, I cringe. The assumptions being made here are based on what logic? Who made up this rule that everything is just going to correct itself? I'm tempted to be contrary, but I have figured out by now that people don't like being educated without their permission. I have to agree with Robert on where things are headed. Not only have the rules of money changed, but the rules of living in our society have changed. The difference between 1999 and 2009 is enormous. Everything is changing instantly and there millions of people who still don't know the basics of how to use a computer, including my mother and father. It's people's thought processes that create the economy and most are living under a paradigm of living in a world with different rules altogether. It is going to take years to change that first.

I have a Veterinary hospital in an affluent area. Being on the frontlines I can tell you a resounding No! Income down 30-40%.

Hi Robert and to all readers,

Is the economy coming back? Based on current events... hidden written newsletters and books...hell no and shouldn't! The majority of us didn't make great use of the old economy... because most of us were too busy on the hamster wheel... were too engrossed in working hard for someone else. Now half of us are the ones we've been waiting for. The conspiracies were never as transparent before ... and globalization was never upon us in this light. Now everybody anywhere can grow from the Information Age...

In the previous factory-based Age... the natural resources were meant for the few: the ones who already had them in their country. We've witnessed them manipulating/monopolizing the up and down of oil, precious metal and food pricing... just to name a few. Now oil is becoming a real dinosaur. Solar and water (that's there for all) are now going to take its place...

The internet is now available for all. That means those who take the time to empower themselves financially (networking with other business partners and customers... learning to build better businesses ... and doing it online and offline)... are thriving... finally! I foresee many like-minded people—especially those under 20— getting their hands dirty on the net— so that they won't have a job. Having a networking 'family' is the trend and it's faster, more addictive... and fun!

I'm witnessing more and more online networkers wanting to help each other succeed... because if they succeed... we all succeed. That is creating Unity and Togetherness globally... as we speak.

So no ... the economy isn't coming back and shouldn't. Its ways and means of getting rich are old school and were meant for the few. The new economy is meant for all... even though the arrogant and ignorant (in most of us) don't see it that way. Those who are left behind... are not necessarily left behind in my view-point. They just left their dreams behind. One day these very same ignorant people will wake up and see the vast wealth of riches right in their reach... just like those upcoming rich from shanty towns. I'm certain of it.

It will come upon them... one way or the other.

the economy will come back eventually but it wont be the same. a new form of economy is comming. its not going to be the same big players ... the question is who are the new big players that will build the new economy!!??